The Roads of Bayville
The Roads of Bayville
Over the years (generations), this subject has caused more aggravation to property owners, contention between neighbors, and resident frustration with the Village, than any other subject. Bayville has a rather unique blend of public, private and privately maintained roads in varying states of disrepair. The condition of many of these roads is an embarrassment to residents and a detriment to property values and contributes to property damage from flooding and abuse to vehicles.
We are faced with disrepair, illegal road closings, civic associations that feel they have the right to forbid school buses to use “their” roads, residents who forbid others to park in front of their house, neighbor feuds due to maintenance and liability issues, and lack of speed limits or enforcement. Because of these things we are forced to accept the lowest common denominator as the standard for our community's streets.
In my opinion, most of the problems with the roads in Bayville can be attributed to one factor: Incorrect classification. There is a pervasive confusion as to whether roads are public, private or privately maintained. The fact is that there are virtually no private roads left in Bayville other than our driveways. In order for a road to be private, they have to be owned privately. This means having title to the land and paying taxes on it. In addition, any private roads that are used by the public for ten years or longer become public. This is explicitly addressed by New York State Village Law, which reads as follows:
§ 6-626 Streets by prescription. All lands within the village which have been used by the public as a street for ten years or more continuously, shall be a street with the same force and effect as if it had been duly laid out and recorded as such.
This makes very clear that the many road closings that have been undertaken by residents over the years were done illegally. One case in point is the current court case involving Mr. Viteritti’s closing of Shore Rd. many years ago. Mr. Falzarano, a resident who recently moved in to the Britton’s house at the other end of Shore Rd. (corner of Shore Rd. and Godfrey), wants the road re-opened so that he can restrict access at his end of the street. Each of the properties along this area of Shore Rd. continues across the road to the water and the roadway is part of these properties. However this road has been openly used by the public for many decades, and is plowed by the Village of Bayville, receives garbage pick up and has utilities running along it. As such it automatically becomes a “street by prescription” and is in the public domain.
You may think that Mr. Viteritti is now entitled to keep the property that he took over by filling and planting with a lawn so many years ago due to “adverse possession”. Unfortunately for Mr. Viteritti, this is not true. Once a street has become public, it cannot revert back through adverse possession as described below:
Title by adverse possession may be acquired against any person or corporation not excepted by statute. Property held by the federal government, a state, or a municipal corporation cannot be taken by adverse possession. As long as the property has a public use, as with a highway or school property, its ownership cannot be lost through adverse possession. ("adverse possession." West's Encyclopedia of American Law. The Gale Group, Inc, 1998. Answers.com 12 Nov. 2006. http://www.answers.com/topic/adverse-possession)
It is obvious that the proper outcome to this case be that Mr. Viteritti be compelled to remove the obstruction to the roadway and that the road remain open. Any other outcome would set a precedent that could conceivably endanger residents due to increased emergency response times.
More to come on this topic.
Barry E. Lamb
Bayville
i absolutely agree with what you have said. i would also like to add that people who want waterfront property SHOULD BUY WATERFRONT PROPERTY, not property on a road on the water~ people who don't want traffic going by their house should buy a house at the end of a block on a dead end street, people who want to live in a gated community SHOULD MOVE TO ONE~ Bayville is a beautiful little seaside community. Neighbors are generally neighborly to each other and the community, on a whole, is a fine one in which to live~ certain memebers of this community profess to love all this about it and at the same time are trying to change the very nature of it by their self serving agendas~ it is getting extremely tiresome~
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Susan,
How about stepping up, owning your words and saying who you are referring to in this sentence?
"certain memebers of this community profess to love all this about it and at the same time are trying to change the very nature of it by their self serving agendas"
Innuendo and veiled references are cowardly and serve to enflame the dialog, not further it in a constructive way.
Furthermore, the rest of your comment about buying a house on a dead end street, not merely across the street from the water.....let's apply that to the homeowners along The Boulevard...that is an illegally closed road...are you advocating that the Village pursue them opening it up? After all, those people did not buy waterfront houses, they bought houses across the street from the water.
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I am referring to anyone and everyone who feels justified in changing the roads to serve themselves.
It was never my intent to inflame the dialog.
I happen to have very strong feelings on the subject.
I cannot speak to the legality of The Boulevard situation, but it was, and still should be an open road, in my opinion.
At this time I am not advocating anything, just stating my opinion.
Not that long ago, it was (pretty much) possible to navigate this village from one end to the other thru all the side streets (which was very helpful during floods and road closures)
What do we suppose would happen if everyone decided to close off the road in front of their house??
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We purchased our home more than 25 years ago and my parents bought theirs more than 50 years ago because they were on closed or dead end streets as much of Bayville is. If all of the barricades in Bayville are removed, it will lower the value of most of these residences and that would be a slap in the face.
The added traffic would also add to the expense of maintaining these privately maintained roads. Is the Village willing to take care of these roads? It can't have it both ways.
If the Village did not act in a reasonable amount of time to changes made more than 25-35 years ago that should be their problem, not the homeowners who paid a premium to live there.
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I beg to differ that most of Bayville is comprised of 'closed' or dead end streets and that removing 'all of the barricades' would lower property values, if any thing it would improve the aesthetic value of the entire Village, in my opinion. The real estate values of homes on 'open' roads can be used as examples that the removal of the barricades will probably not have an adverse effect on the value of the homes.
There is a BIG difference between a dead end street and a road that has been 'barricaded' or closed off illegally.
The Villages 'problems' are the resident's problems and vice versa. What happens in this little Village of ours affects us all.
Rectifying a wrong is always a good thing.
In my opinion.
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Thats an interesting point of view JD.
The problem is, the streets that have had to host the additional traffic, due to the illegal closings, ARE eating the expenses (every year) of maintaining the roads without help from the village. In fact the roads that handle your traffic were never intended for the increased volume. Some are so narrow that two cars can't pass at the same time and often we've had tire tracks on our lawns because everyone is in such a rush.
I'm fed up with these closures, and all should be opened. Im also pretty disappointed in the all the monies being spent by the village on the lawsuits regarding these "dead ends"; post, present and future.
Once public, always public. I'm personally looking forward to using one of the roads that were illegally closed for awhile.
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"There is a BIG difference between a dead end street and a road that has been 'barricaded' or closed off illegally"
Susan,
Can you actually name a dead-end street that was intended that way? Besides the Presidents Streets on the Creek side, almost every one I can think of is now a dead end b/c it was closed at one point or another.
For example, Washington Ave on the Creek Side, totally was closed. it should run all the way down past Saltaire Ct and Vittorettis lawn, excuse me, road.
Same with Arlington.
And I revisit my original discussion on The Boulevard. surely opening hte road to through traffic would adversely affect the value of those homes.
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JaneD,
I believe Arlington is open, never closed. It is Washington that is the feeder for Shore Rd on the maps. The Viteretti property runs across Shore. Arlington teminates at the Washington/Shore juncture. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Jeff
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Jeff, you're right...I'm not up to par on my bayville geography, clearly! My bad.
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No Problem JaneD
Don't know about you but I'm glad there is a local forum like this. Bayville really needed this.
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Dead End Streets in Bayville:
Quincy on the bayside, Deans Lane, Merrit Lane, Lauren Lane, Jackson Ave., Oak Place, Finnan Pl., Schraeder Pl., Shorewood Dr., 1st Street, Sanzovorino Lane, Woods La., Alviter Pl., Private Rd., Hilltop Dr., Cliff Dr., Valley Rd., Quannacut Dr., Oak Shore Dr., Waayawi, Ships La., Meadow La., Duane La., Greenwich Ave., Sound Beach Ave. (soundside), Holden La.*, Calendar View Dr.*, Seawall La.*, Beaver Dr.*, Tides Ct., Vivona Ct.*, Dickerson Ave.*, (*also known as cul-de sacs), Ash Ct., I'm sure i missed a few (in Bayville Park Blvd. & Oak Neck) but there they are. Dead end streets.
Almost all the other streets feed into one another.
Illegally closed streets were designed to be, and once were used as, thru streets and then were barricaded. (Shore Rd., The Boulevard, Oak Point Dr. North, Washington Av.e and it looks like Pleaasant View Dr. and Pine Lane too until those lovely telephone poles were put up across the street)
It seems very unlikely to me that once the baricaded streets are opened people will use them as alternate avenues of travel unless needed. (Except maybe the curiosity seekers at the onset of the openings).
But it will be nice to have the option, in my opinion.
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You forgot Franklin Avenue another illegally closed road. If you drive down Arlington Lane to the cirle you will see AKA shore road but its not it's Washington Avenue illegally closed. Just see some addresses like ### Washington Avenue. It's the house on the creek near Valentine Beach. As far as the Boulevard I say take down those barricades. These are thru streets why should other streets like Arlington Lane have to take the additional traffic. Who pays for the road to be repaired..not additional traffic not Grove St not Solitare which by the way was built on an Indian burial site and those homes should never have been built. Arlington has to pay it is a private road.
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Cindy,
When I was a kid the 'barricades' on the Boulevard were removable chains. The traffic that used the Boulevard from cars that did not live in Pine Island Park wore out the roads, created dust and noise and generally disturbed the peace on what is really only a shared PRIVATE driveway for a few homes. The damage caused by non-resident traffic was extensive, and the RESIDENTS of Pine Island Park had to pay to repair the Boulevard. So let me ask you this, Cindy: can we all use your driveway or backyard and dig deep ruts in it and it's just too bad that you'll have to pay to repair it yourself? Is that your idea of what's fair? We CHOOSE to keep the Boulevard private and barricaded because it keeps our community quiet and safe and free from damage, and we are willing to pay to maintain the Boulevard. DO NOT TELL US WHAT WE SHOULD DO WITH OUR PROPERTY, and we won't do the same unto you!!
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It's not 'really only a shared PRIVATE driveway' IT'S A ROAD.
It's not your 'property', IT'S A ROAD.
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Since no road is really private-explain how a new resident gets a truck to dig holes in the dirt road so people can't drive on it anymore...Thay do not use the road-but have decided it is their property and they are trying to linit useage...I have called the town and they have done nothing about it. The road is almost not driveable..What can be done about this?
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jan,
How do you know the road is not theirs? I know of several families htat have, on their deeds, the road in front of their homes.
If the road is not drive able, take another route.
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To Jane D - I happen to own the road in front of my home as well as into the creek as possibly the home that dug the holes does - I could never imagine digging the road up so others would have a hard time passing by - Even though its on my survey, Its just not a very kind thing to do - I do not know the law on this but maybe Barry you would? New or old resident I have to agree with Jan - What matters is the what is being done - The road does get plowed by the town, and garbage picked up yet we can not get the town to fill in the huge dips...
In my opinion, I do feel that older residents MAY have more love for Bayville than the newer ones - Just an opinion - We should all try and work together - Bayville is great place to live - Happy New Year
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Another route? What other route is there if your home is on that road?
PS - meaning its ok to just let anyone do anything to any road?
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Since no road is really private-explain how a new resident gets a truck to dig holes in the dirt road so people can't drive on it anymore...They do not use the road-but have decided it is their property and they are trying to limit usage...I have called the town and they have done nothing about it. The road is almost not drivable..What can be done about this?
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Jan,
one more thing, very interesting to me that you stated it is a "new" resident getting their road dug up..if it had been a long time bayville resident, would that make it ok?
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Not sure why that matters...I would think if this is a board to discuss items that are of a concern-there would be more focus on the issue...
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I brought it up b/c you made a point of referring to the person as a 'new resident' In general in bayville, if you haven't already noticed, there is much made of the 'newcomer' having hte nerve to want to change things.
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Jan,
What road are we talking about? If the road is not private and someone is purposely doing damage to it, then the Village should come in and repair it and assess the damages to the homeowner's property taxes.
Jane D.
As I've stated right in this post, even if it was a private road and it has been open to the public for 10 years, it is a privately maintained road in the public domain. If it is plowed by the Village and/or Bayville Sanitation drives down the road to pick up garbage, it is no longer private.
Barry
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Bayville 8 Years,
In order for the Village to be responsible for maintaining the road itself, the road would first have to be constructed to the standards of the Village and then "dedicated" to the village. This is the usual way for a road to become a public road in a new development. A road that is private but is open to the general public for 10 years or more becomes a public road but remains privately maintained until it is properly dedicated. Once the road is in the public domain, it can never be reversed by closing the road. This is why true private roads in Bayville are exceedingly rare.
Barry
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Barry, let's be fair. I'm sure (my opinion here) that the village would REALLY not want every private road to be 'dedicated' to them. there is a vast financial difference between trash pick up and plowing and maintaining a paved road. it would be a huge burden on the village financially and personnel wise.
isn't it the truth that most of what is called 'private' roads here have technically been abandoned by the village?
bayville 8 years,
i disagree with you. i'm about as new as you are...been here 7 years. i love this town. hell i'd have to love this town to continue staying here when i could sell my house for quite a pretty penny and move somewhere with a much better commute for my husband and MUCH better schools for our kids.
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Hello...I am not sure what point it is that you disagree with? Why would digging holes on a public road be OK with anyone? We should be neighborly to one another - How could someone make a road impossible to drive for others, especially when that house does not have to drive on that road at all! they access their driveway from Godfrey...
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bayville 8 years, I'm kind of shocked that you are basically identifying the house that you are complaining about while hiding ever so conveniently behind your 'nom de plume'.
if you are so comfortable giving enough identifying factors about a home that people can figure out exactly what house you are talking about you should have the nerve to sign your own name.
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cynthia,
how do you know that saltaire ct is built on an indian burial site?!
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It's a fact....Go to the Bayville Museum or read the sign at the top of Valley Road. They found bones and skulls and had multi studies done. I was a little girl when I heard and went down to see for myself.
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very interesting. i'll check it out.
meanwhile, you've got someone's real, actual address in your post above...did you check that with them? if not you may want to remove it.
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Check it out it is interesting. This is my first time on blog. I just used the address as an example all are Washington Avenue addresses. Anyway how would you change or remove it. Thanks for your help.
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Cindy,
I have deleted the number in the address as per your request. You weren't associating it with a particular person, so it is a non-issue.
Barry
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Thanks for your help Barry. I'm new to this blog and I find it very interesting and informative. Thanks again.
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Cindy,
You're welcome and stay tuned. As other issues subside we will continue to address the roads issue with other examples of the problems that are caused by the rather bizarre system that has evolved. It is nobody's fault, just a product of a unique history, but it needs to be addressed.
More importantly I will be starting a discussion about ways to fix it. Solutions are the reason for this forum to exist.
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bayville 8 years,
what i disagreed with was this statement:
"In my opinion, I do feel that older residents MAY have more love for Bayville than the newer ones - Just an opinion -"
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Interesting... the streets ARE public after all... then why did we all pay 5000 over 5 years for the paving in order to have NO say over the privacy... and if we have no privacy, then neither do the other associations and we'll all be taxed to "improve" each others' roads. There is now no incentive for me to approve future road improvements... i'm not selling, so why do i can about improving others' home values??
Another question comes to mind... wasn't Sanzaverino open to King Rd at one point in time? (I'm not sure if it was, however it appears that way on maps). If that's true, should that be reopened, and busses allowed over that route, as the turn is less acute than Tildean?? (Hey... if the garbage truck can make it...)
Oh, what other worms might pour out of the can if we intend to review all issues legally?
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The application of the "prescription" portion of the statute may not apply. It seems that perhaps we DO require a plethora of attorneys.
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Private land may become a public village street by prescription or public use, pursuant to Village Law, §6-626, if there has been continuous and uninterrupted public use as a street for 10 years or more,....[ note these additional words in an issued opinion pursuant to the citations...] " and the village has continuously maintained, repaired and, thus, assumed control of the street for the statutory period" (see Jim May Pontiac Buick, Inc. v Gleason, 112 AD2d 618, 492 NYS2d 141; Impastato v Catskill, 55 AD2d 714, 389 NYS2d 152, affd 43 NY2d 888, 403 NYS2d 497; Jakobson v Chestnut Hill, 106 Misc 2d 918, 436 NYS2d 806; Catskill v DeCicco, 2 Misc 2d 942, 147 NYS2d 756; 21 Opns St Comp, 1965, p 450).
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The fact is that *we* have maintained the street. Should we decide it IS a public road after all, perhaps the Association issued letter which excludes us from being made scapegoats to the school district should also exlude us from the scapegoat status of the scream park, as they also are entitled to the fair usage of a public road... wait, it's private,no.. it's public, no.. it's hmmm....
While I'm merely playing devil's advocate, it is disturbing how the underwhelming minority misappropriates the statute for it's own benefit, while ignoring (better yet trying to get around) the majority's wishes (majority vote from last year) to keep the roads private, quiet, and safer without the additional bus traffic.
While nobody wishes to see schoolchildren (especially!) deprived of a ride to school.. guess what.. they are NOT... it appears simply to be a matter of convenience for the parents not to drive the extra block or two (or heaven forbid that the child should walk .. age allowing).
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Bayvillian Re: your Saturday Jan. 20th 2007 6:02 PM memo
If memory serves me correctly, Chestnut Hill was a 1980's Bayville lawsuit concerning Dickerson Avenue where the owners on the northern end of the road wanted to block access to a new development on the southern end. The criteria established therein for private verses public road, has been cited in later court decisions.
Evidence showed that Dickerson Avenue had become a public road by the Village installing water mains and fire hydrants, collecting garbage and providing snow removal WITHOUT providing actual road repair. By providing the above listed services, during the prescription period, the Village took control of the road.
I would suggest that those interested in this discussion on Bayville's roads obtain a copy of the court's Jakobson v. Chestnut Hill decision, before the discussion spirals out of control. I believe it will be an eye-opener for many.
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are you kidding me! walk an extra block or two, matter of convenience! It is pretty obvious to me that you either live close to the bus stop or don't have children. Gee, long winding roads with no street lights, stop signs, lighting, blind spots like crazy. When it snows they are forced to walk more into the traveled way of the road. Yeah, I 'm lazy and my children are deprived. Shame on you.
Wake up, times have changed. More traffic does flow through here. Let me see, should I call you lazy because you don't want to bring your garbage to the top of bayville park blvd and then have to carry the empty cans back. Oh, I'm sorry, that's right garbage trucks are allowed in here. So sad to hear that some people feel that children's safety is less important than garbage.
As far as the vote is concerned over seventy houses didn't even vote. Maybe those seventy people don't even care if the buses are here or not.
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winfro...is that short for Win Frochlich, who sits on the village ZBA?
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ONE MAIN ROAD IN TOWN AND IT IS AWFUL!!
Why is it that here, in one of the most beautiful and somewhat affluent communities on LI's North Shore, one where we pay tremendous taxes to live, we have one of the most decrepit main roads in any town on Long Island?
Bayville Avenue from the center of town heading west, is in awful condition and hasn't been fully and properly repaved in decades!
Driving from Bavyille Park Blvd eastward, one encounters constant uneven road terrain, grooves, divots, potholes, bumps, humps, lumps, and varied assortments of nastiness.
In short; it is a horrible ride and a disgrace to both our town and its government for allowing it to exist like this!!!
Why don't the Mayor, Trustees, and other officials get this paved?
Pave it correctly too! Mill the existing one out and lay down a properly thick and smooth new road. Do not cut corners with sloppy and hastily laid down patches that crumble up in short order leaving things worse!
THERE IS ONLY ONE MAIN ROAD!! MAKE IT NICE!
West Harbor Road was redone about a year ago, and that is a seldom used, wide, four lane road that only services Center Island! Why was that done. (It was in good condition beforehand too!)
Bayville Avenue on the other hand, only two lanes wide, serves the ENTIRE TOWN and every road off of it!
The traffic is constant and upgrading is imperative!!
Something is wrong here! Don't all of you residents see that?!
Maybe the only way we can get this done is if all the residents picket at Village Hall and the main intersection in town and demand of the Mayor and other officials - "Where is our tax money being spent!!??" "Fix our main road!!"
It certainly is not being spent to fix the ONLY main road in town!
How hard can that be?
To fix and maintain ONE MAIN ROAD in this small little town?
Where is our money going?
WHERE??!!
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West Harbor Drive was done with a grant. Bayville Road is a county road, or at least a road maintained by the county.
There are plans for a major repair of Bayville Road in the president streets area to mitigate flooding. This project involves the State DEC so don't hold your breath.
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Can Woody tellme what grant they received for Bayville Road? Thanks.
http://frisbeepainting.com
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I'm not sure of the source - town or county, but the village did get outside money. Village funds were also used in the West Harbor Drive repaving. The mayor went into details at one of the village meetings. I don't recall the particulars. At that meeting she also mentioned that there would be additional work done - curbs and bike lanes.
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Can anyone do anything about the speeding traffic down that one main road???
AKA Bayville Avenue
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Is there something wrong with the drivers in this town? Or is there just something wrong with the people in this town in general? A long time ago, the powers that be came up with an excellent traffic control device. It helped to control the amount of accidents and it also helped control traffic in an organized, systematic way. It worked perfectly when you first saw them. So perfect in fact, that they are still around today. Do you know what they are called? STOP SIGNS!!!
Look for them. They are fairly large in size....and they are RED. They can pretty much stand out in any city, town or village (yes this includes pretty little Bayville). PLEASE STOP FOR THEM....IT'S NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR.
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Mr.Taylor,
Get this straight, the Blvd. is a LEGAL ROAD!!! not a shared driveway like you say,it has always been a road, when I grew up on the President Streets, the Blvd. was only really used when Bayville Ave.flooded and it was a detour for people to get through Bayville without driving threw the large puddle, so I don't know what your talking about, it's a ROAD check the maps. The resident's of the Blvd and the President streets decided they didn't want traffic going by their homes, 2 maybe 3 times a year, suck it up those barricades are WRONG and put up by the residents, if Mr. Vittereti had to remove his road block then so should the Boulevard. It's only fair and it's the right thing to do. And FYI I live on the President streets now and I think they should be removed.
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