Poor Communication Contributing to the Heat over Microwaves?
Here is an excerpt from an article in Newsday –Static on county’s radios on 1/4/07 (full article)
“Bayville Mayor Victoria Siegel said village officials had heard from more than 100 people on the proposal to mount two antennae on its water tower, across from a grade school. No decision had been made, she said, but "the majority opinion we heard is, 'It causes cancer,' 'We don't want it,' 'Put it somewhere else. ' "
She acknowledged that the village now has 52 antennae from cell carriers who pay annual fees. Asked the difference, she said, "When these cell carriers were going up on the water tower, people have not come to public hearings."
I believe the overwhelming response and attendance at the Dec 18th public hearing for the proposed NCPD radio system is only due to the recent awareness of the proposal. And no, it did not come from the miniscule mention near the return address line of the village newsletter.
I hardly classify myself as living in a shell and I’m confident others share my “disconnect” from previous decisions in this village. I believe no one came to the previous town halls regarding the cell sites due to the fact that they most likely did not know about it. This has come up many times in the past in talking with people around town.
One of the reasons why I started the blog was to help “extinguish” the “disconnect”. I figure that if enough people participate the word will get out somehow. Not everyone can make every meeting. This blog at least provides the vessel for communication.
Before reading about it on the BayvillleBlog in November, I myself knew nothing about the antenna proposal. By comparison, the attendance at the meeting in November compared to December, I feel pretty confident in saying most of the town did not know about it either.
So now that the residents did come to the hearings, now what? Time is definitely ticking. Why did we have the first town hearing in November when this project was proposed in September of 2005 according to the Newsday article?
The common denominator seems to be communication. I recently found out that the village, by placing the info in the kiosks, is doing more than they are required by law regarding notifications. I was told that they are only required to publish the article in the newspaper. This may satisfy the legal requirement, but is it effective? Is it really enough? If the Legal notices for public hearings were online I believe there would be a greater awareness of what is actually going on. People would have an alternate way to “connect” with the village.
I urge the village to post the legal notifications for public hearings on the village website. This would be a great addition to the recently updated content, and provide the residents the convenience of viewing it online. More information is better than missed information.
Don’t forget- The next village meeting is on January 22nd at 7:30PM
Respectfully,
Jeff Silver
Excellent! I agree with everything you said and I am glad you have taken the bull by the horn and provided us Bayvillites this service. I am marking my calendar and it may be a good idea to get access to the town bulletin boards and put a more detailed notice of what's important happenings in Bayville. Advertising your Bayville blog seems like a good idea also.........
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Thank you Jeff for providing this forum to us as the citizens of Bayville.
In light of the concerns voiced at the December 18, 2006 Bayville Village meeting pertaining to the NCPD proposed microwave antennae installation on the Bayville Water Tower, a group of concerned citizens have come together to form “Partnership for Bayville’s Future”, a community organization voicing concerns and providing useful information. It is our goal to work closely with village officials.
Our Mission is to provide a network and a forum to enhance the quality of life for all of our residents. We seek to provide a greater knowledge of community issues and activities. We seek to work in cooperation with our Village Government as well as other community organizations towards achieving our mutual goals.
Our current active project is this antenna issue, if you are interested in helping us out with petitions or in any other way, please contact us via our website. That is the best way to reach us.
www.partnershipforbayvillesfuture.org
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After visiting the Partnership for Bayville's future I have to say I don't believe it is your goal to "work closely with village officials". Anyone who is in the midst of putting petitions together clearly is not working together with those they are petitioning. This website will only continue to divide our community and pit neighbor versus neighbor. I wonder if membership is open to everyone or if it's selective to only those that posted signs on their front lawns during the last election. I hope that this "organization" is interested in helping Bayville's future and not just undermining the current administration.
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I cannot believe I have to explain this to an adult, but here it goes. In democracy, when the people want to voice their concerns as many voices speaking as one voice they need to form a petition.
This is the way the Village will know what the people of a specific group want and stand for as a united front.
The petition is simple and states the people who sign it are against the new proposal please vote against it. This peition is a tool for Vicki Siegel and the trustees to use in either making their decision or to use in supporting their decision to the NCPD.
How shallow can you be? Why don't you put aside your pastisian issues and fight for the sole issue of our children.
Or beter yet, why don't you approach this group and lead it. I am sure they are looking for help, I know I keep getting emails for involvement. There are many names on that email list, why doesn't someone else step up and fight for our children?
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Joan -
Thank you for your definition of a democracy. I am participating in said democracy by voicing my concerns over the true intent of this "organization". I believe it is within my own right to do so. I'm sorry if it offended you. Please don't name call (FYI - I don't appreciate being called shallow) as I was just letting my own concerns be heard. As a mother of young children I have yet to be approached by anyone on any front of this organization which is why I question who is potentially serving on this "organization".
I also further believe that petitions are useless and a slap in the face. Having attended the last meeting, I think the Mayor and Trustess are well aware of the community's stance on this issue. I don't believe running around getting signatures will further the effort at all. If you are "working closely" with Village officials, you should go and speak to them privately rather than request time during a public forum to confront them with pages of useless signatures.
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I received an email from the people starting the group and the invite was open to all who felt the same. I also know that Mr. Zino put on this blog to contact him if you wanted to work together on a group. Therefore, you could have reached out to him, he is involved in the organization.
Members of the organization have spoken with the Mayor from the onset.
Mayor Siegel stated in Newsday that people never voiced oppostion (to paraphase her)in 2003. Well, maybe now people feel they need to unite and voice oppostion in a professional and uniformed manner.
In addition, by putting the info about the organization on the blog they are inviting all to participate.
Maybe, if anyone knew who you were a special invite could be hand delivered to your home.
This is a comunity issue and I think anyone who tries to make it political, has an agenda of their own.
It is time for this community to come together for the betterment of the children who have no voice in this and work together, putting aside the stupid election. Didn't Vicki win by a landslide, so what is all the hoopla about.
Whoever is willing to do allthe work, for my kids and try to make a difference in this community that will positively effect all of us, I will support. I am sending in my donation today. And yes, I will be collecting those silly signatures, because guess what, petitions are a staple of this government. YOu actually need silly signatures to get yourself on a ballot in this country,
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Bavyille 26,
"petitions are useless and a slap in the face"
"useless signatures"
Are you for real? Ever hear of a useless, slap in the face document called the Declaration of Independence? essentially it was a gathering of signatures by a concerned group of citizens to indicate to their government that they were dissatisfied with the way things were going and that a change was needed.
Petitions are an integral part of the way our democracy works, if you choose to disregard that fact, so be it, but it doesn't make it untrue nor does it make them useless.
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Bayville 26,
As a part of the group PBF I am asking for yor help to protect our children.The more people that get involved the better.Lets keep in mind the number of sick children in this tiny,beautiful town.Our we waiting for people to start dropping dead in the streets to say that we have a problem.Every person I talk to say that they are scared,so PBF was started to help us have a voice.I don't know your name so maybe you can tell me do your children attend Bayville schools and if so do you feel that they are safe? One last thing my family voted for Mayor Seigel so now what is your theory?
Kirsten
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OK - I don't think that there is a need to be so dramatic here. I clearly understand the importance of a signature. I was merely referring to the signatures being a bit of overkill on this issue. As I stated before, I believe that if the PBF is going to work closely with the Village Officials a petition shouldn't be necessary. I think with this blog and the previous meeting the Village Officials have gotten the point. Rather than beating a dead horse, how about try taking the issue to the state and federal levels? Why not petition to have the state make a law that these antennae can't be within certain distances from schools so that this is never an issue for Bayville again?
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Bayville 26,
I'm sure Bayville officials have heard the point but are they going to do the right thing and listen.If you have children in bayville schools or even if you don't.Would you like to help us?It seems like you have some great ideas.If so you may contact my husband or myself.
Kirsten
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Bayville26,
Great idea about the state petition. Right now, I have my hands full, but please consider contacting the PBF to offer your assistance(if interested).
A petition is needed. Our Village officials will realize people are concerned if they are willing to put there REAL name on something. And, a petition is probably doing our Village officials a favor, as opposed to having hundreds(or more) of people calling the office to state there concerns.
As far as "true intent"? As I stated earlier, I voted for VS. I hope this helps you realize, this is not about politics. This is a common sense issue of the safety of our children, That Is It.
Chris Zino
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
~ Margaret Mead
(1901 - 1978)
Did you notice this posted on the top of this blog, which I read has been created as a source of information rather than a place for mean-spirited anonymous posts, if Bayville26 supports the antennas then she/he should certainly voice that opinion, the Village board has always suggested petitions as a way of informing them of mass opinion. Please respect this blog, I am a supporter of the current administration and I am also getting involved in this new organization in hopes that we can have a civic organization in Bayville.
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I am writing on behalf of the PBF. We are indeed open to all interested parties, regardless of political leanings. If you are concerned about the 52 antennae on the water tower and/or about the NCPD proposal, or have any other community issues you would like to work on, we welcome you to email us via our website.
We have attempted to reach as many people as possible, via press releases to this site, the local papers, news12 and newsday, in addition to using our own personal contacts. There exists no comprehensive list specifically of parents in this town so we are doing our best to reach as many people as we can.
Again, to anyone reading this, please consider this note to be an invitation to join the PBF and help us make Bayville the best it can be.
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Kirsten Zino wrote: "Let's keep in mind the number of sick children in this town." Being a rather small Village of approximately 9,000, a lot of residents know each other and therefore even one sick child becomes a more personal tragedy. I too was concerned about the number of cases of juvenile leukemia in our midst. In checking the national average for the disease however, I found that Bayville is on a par with the national average for occurances within the population.
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Lisa,
Please post where you got that info from. Or email it to me. I actually tried to hunt it down one day, and hit a wall. Thanks.
Chris Zino
czino@optonline.net
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Hi Chris,
I seem unable to pull up the exact page where I located that info, but this chart is specific to NY.
http://cancercontrolplanet.cancer.gov/atlas/index1.jsp?ac=1&fc=st&bar=0
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This is the first time and probably only time I will ever write on this blog, but I felt someone had to answer this misinformed women, who like our Bayville administration likes to distort the truth.
Dear Lisa,
You wrote and I quote "I found that Bayville is on a par with the national average for occurrences within the population." Now I did my own research but I also referred to the page you posted and in both cases the national average for Leukemia is somewhere about 12.8 per 100,000 people. Now I understand you love to feed mis-information to our public and are the queen of propaganda, however simple math tells you that in a village of 8000 we should not have 5 children and 4 adults with Leukemia when the national average is 12.8 out of 100,000. Why don't you do a story on that. Vicky might not approve you writing the truth about how she sold out our communities health for a buck, and then lied to the community that it was the previous administration. 5 out of 6 of the trustees who approved putting 42 more antennas next to our school in the past 4 years all served with her and allowed her to lie to the entire community in a public forum. Vicky's slogan was who is watching out for you. Apparently non of our elected officials. So if you are going to post on here try and keep the facts straight. This is not the leader we do not want to hear your false propaganda. Go back to you defunct blog with your 20 aliases.
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Lisa:
Unless I made a mistake, the link you provided gave out some statistics on cancer mortality (death) rather than diagnosis and incidence.
Chris:
You may have already found these sites, but in case you have not, I found the following information from a 2003 article discussing trends between 1973-1998 at:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12712476
It is estimated that each year, approximately 30,800 individuals will be diagnosed with leukemia in the United States and 21,700 individuals will die of the disease. Although the overall incidence of leukemia has been declining in the United States, recent reports suggest that incidence rates may be increasing for certain age and racial groups. METHODS: Leukemia incidence (including acute lymphoblastic leukemia [ALL], acute myeloid leukemia [AML], chronic myeloid leukemia [CML], and chronic lymphoblastic leukemia [CLL]) and 5-year survival rates were obtained from the Surveillance, Epidemiology, and End Results (SEER) program. Specific rates for age (birth-19, 20-44, 45-64, and 65 + years), gender, and race (black, white) were also examined. RESULTS: A total of 66,404 cases of leukemia were identified for the period 1973-1998 in the nine reporting SEER sites. For children younger than 20 years old, the overall incidence rate of leukemia increased significantly (estimated annual percent change [EAPC] = 0.5%, 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.1-0.9), whereas the rate decreased significantly among the group 65 years and older
The National Cancer Institute also has a search that you can do by state:
http://statecancerprofiles.cancer.gov/incidencerates/incidencerates.html
I ran a search for leukemia in NY for all races and age groups and found that the average for the period of 200-2002 was 12.2 per 100,000, similar to what was set forth by statsman.
I have no intention of getting into any personal debates. I just wanted to provide links so that readers can see the statistics and use these sites to perform further research.
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Good morning to you too, whoever you are. You will see that the chart I posted is for MORTALITY rate per year. Now recalculate your math. I was unable to locate RATE OF DIAGNOSIS per year, however I will do a further search when I have the time. I accept your apology for your rude behavior, in advance.
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Lisa-
You are jumping down that woman's throat- I did not find her post in anyway rude, just informative.
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To Jessica-
???? What woman's throat? "Statsman"? Because that was who my reply was to, not Kathleen Fioretti who must have missed my post before hers where I clarified the chart regarding Mortality rates. Other than than, Kathleen put up a perfectly fine post with informative links. Try reading in context before burning me at the stake.
-Lisa
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I don't understand why Bayville politics/democracy are an issue with the antenna hearing. Anyone has the right to voice their opinions individually or as a group. I have read entries on this blog..both sections and the few available on The Leader...why are those who are so vehemently opposed to the PBF group convoluting this into an old election battle? Stop taking it so personally, I really don't see it as an attack on the Village. They haven't even made a decision or an announcement of the decision is expected. Give them a little credit. I did call the Village and was told they were indeed approached by PBF and the PBF and Village website are both informative about different aspects of this polarizing issue. How can it be a bad thing for the Village to have all the facts that the residents wish to present. That is the purpose of Public Hearings.
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Scott Asked
“Why are those who are so vehemently opposed to the PBF”
My Goal In righting this is not to bash any one but help people understand what is going on in our town.
What is going on in our town is a clash of cultures. Bayville use to be Far away from NY city (The Express way Ended In Hicksville). Most of the early homeowners bought houses as summer homes or to live in an Isolated Town Far away from the rest of the world. Most of the people got along and when things needed to get dun people got together and did it. Our American legion was Not Built By a contractor it was built by a group of Local Men. Threw out the years Bayville Has Maintained Its “Small town Life stile”. (Very hard to find on long Island So Close to The City) Part of the reason Its Been Able to stay the way it is is Our Own village government And Mrs. Siegel. Even though many people have disagreed with Mrs. Siegel she always had The Towns Respect. Through out the years many People Have Moved In and Have Enjoyed Living In Our Quiet little town. Right Around the year 2000 Bayville Had a large Population change.
Lets Just say the culture of the new comers does not match the culture of the old Bayville. Remember time has stood still in Bayville for along time. Why did it stay still? Because the people wanted it to. Hence the battles start. You have a group of people who trust their Mayor and want every thing to stay the same on one side. On The Other Is a group of people Who Wish “Bayville would be their definition of Better” or “Partnership for Bayville’s Future”.
Why do so Many People Question Their Motives?
Its little thing’s like Pushing some ones hand down when they are trying to ask a question.
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Bayville Engineer,
Who has pushed anyone's hand down, either literally or figuratively, while they were trying to ask a question?
We understand the divide between old and new bayville. new bayville is educated, affluented, has a lot of money invested in their homes, is concerned about the quality of their child's education, and is interested in keeping things that are good about bayville (like its community spirit, neighborliness, small town feel) and improving upon the things that are not so good. it is unrealistic to expect that 5,000-7,000 people in a town will always have the same opinion and blind trust in ONE person running the gov't. ever hear the saying, absolute power corrupts?
It's fairly normal human nature for the old timers to have an uneasy time with the new comers, but think about it logically...as the older people move on from the homes they owned in bayville, if younger families didn't step in to buy them, then what would happen to the town? homes would become rentals instead of family occupied and the face of the town would change completely.
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Jane D,
the problem is you don't want to live in a town with community spirit, neighborlyness and a small town feel. You don't know what these things mean, are not willing to find out or make the sacrifices nessary to live like that. Are you really going to talk to let alone invite your "neighbor" who is the uneducated plumer, handyman, landscaper to your house?? What about giving your neighbor who has no money like you to hire a landscaper a hand cleaning thier leaves off their lawn?? Oh, you probably don't live near them and just make a face as you drive by. the real truth is you wanted to live in a ritzy lugorious neighborhood and could not aford it so you settled for moving here and now have to put up with the "lower type" people who you feel are beneath you, so you try to take over our town and drive us away. Well we are not going quietly, sorry.
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So adding 52 antennas and maybe more, is keeping the time standing still?
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I have been reading this blob through out the whole antena thing. I have not said one word. I teach college physics so lets just say I am very knowledgable (although I can't spell) about the topic. I have children both going to St. Gertrude's and The Primary school I am not worried abouth their health not one bit. I am worried about what I see going on in this town. I moved here after forcing my husband to leave. We spent 4 years driving 1 hour to Bayvilleand 1 hour back almost everyday this was stupid. I love Bayville the "old Bayville" I know its history first hand from the "townies" who know and lived its history they grew up with my husband and are my friends. I do NOT like the direction this town is going infact I HATE IT. Bayville was a nice SLOW quiet place. Now everyone is in a hurry and impatient and nasty to each other. It was not too long ago (2 years or so) people could stop on Bayville Ave. and have a conversation in thier cars no one minded people just waited patiently or went around them. I found this fasinating! also the first time I did it, it was awsome I was a true Bayville person. Now if you stop to talk even on a small street, you end up with some angry rich person Who just moved here reciently in an suv beeping at you and they won't even go around when you wave them through they just get closer to your car and keep beeping. THere is no sence of niceness or kind ness left. If people didn't like the blue colar "hickish" way Bayville does things they should not have moved here. I love it. Now people are changing it in the name of progress. to me it is NOT progress. there were unwriten understandings that people just abided by inspite of what the written law stated, because it was nice to do to others. It's the Bayville way People went on your property to use the jetty or to get to some other public place no one cared, they waved and said hi. Now there are road block, and signs and fences and people yell at you,it is terrible. No one cared if you took your dog someplace now people scream at you, you get fined or worse sued. We seu for everything. It may have been done everywhere else but it has only been done in Bayville in the past few years. It is a sad thing I am watching. This is why the "old Bayville" does not trust the new. They like all the old unwritten understandings(and there is alot of them) niceness and nighborlyness. They don't see the change as an improvement. AND there is fear of the reprocutions for their opinoins that is why all the fake names. I am either stupid or don't care so I will use my name. I am not trying to stereo type or get people angry I am just trying to explain why there is so much resistance to the BPF.you might not want to respond to this. this is the LAST time I go on the blog, it gives me stomach pains. If you want to talk to me come to my house we can have a cup of tea or we can chat on Bayville Ave in our cars the Bayville way.
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Roberta,
why don't you take it upon yourself to write down the 'unwritten' rules of bayville and hand them out to the newcomers? If you're not sure who we are, you can tell by the SUV's and well kept houses.
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Sorry Jane and Joe - But you are exactly who Roberta is talking about. She is trying to explain why there is so much division and you go ahead and attack her. Way to go. Congratulations on your witty replies.
I agree 100% with you Roberta. And 52 antennae have nothing to do with what she is talking about. She is referring to a town where the Mayor looked out for the best interests of the community which is what our Mayor has done for the past 12 years. Why would she risk her own family's health? Do you really believe that she would? And don't give me some smart remark that's total BS. The point is she wouldn't.
I have been reading this blog and can't believe some of the things that have been said. For instance, some one referred to why there was no one at the Grass Roots meeting. Edie replied it didn't concern her bc she didn't use chemicals. Brilliant! What happens when it rains and the water runs down from your neighbor whose yard is laden with chemicals?
The point is, what concerns the PBF has nothing to do with what's best for Bayville. Go to their website. According to them there is "an array of issues to get involved in" and they will be telling us what they are. I personally don't believe that.
So, go ahead you nasty bloggers. I'm sure you'll have plenty to say about what I wrote.
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Anne,
Where did I say chemicals on lawns don't concern me? Of course they do, that is why we don't use them. You're right, I did not attend the Grass Roots meeting b/c I have two small children and a husband with a long commute. He gets home pretty late and anything I do out of the house during the week requires a babysitter, which isn't always a snap to arrange. If you have kids, I'm sure you can understand that. But of course my kids play on friends lawns and public parks and even at my parents house, and therefore they are exposed to lawn chemicals that way. Plus, everyone elses lawn chemicals run into the creek/bay where we swim and into our groundwater, so it's a big concern of mine. However, it's kind of a passive concern b/c i know that my husband and I are doing what we can to protect our kids from the harms of chemically treated lawns without living in a bubble.
That is all I'm trying to do with regards to the antenna issue.
Ideally I would like Village Hall to listen to the concerns of the 100 people who attended on Dec. 18 and ask NCPD to locate another site that would serve them as well as the water tower site. If that was not possible and the plan goes forward so close to the school, I would like to ask Village Hall to somehow ensure that the system is not added to in future years. For example, it was pointed out by an audience member Dec. 18 that the proposed system is much more powerful than the NCPD is saying they currently need or will be using, so does that mean that in a few more years, we'll get another knock on our door from NCPD that they need to put more equipment that will send out more harmful rays? Just some food for thought.
Anne, also, as a member of the PBF, I can assure you we have no desire to tell you or any one who does join us what the issues we hope to address will be. That is something that will come from the membership. Why is it SO threatening people that some people want to start a civic group in Bayville? I truly can't understand that.
What is also perplexing to me is that this town will wonderfully, generously, amazingly give and organize and support a child and family who are faced with a cancer diagnosis, but will also turn around and vilify a small group of concerned people who are trying in all good faith to do something that could potentially save many other children from getting sick.
I am not on anyone's side or against any one. I am for the children, choose to believe it or not.
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to Jane D.
A few corrections. "Old Timers" does not mean old. There are young people living in Bayville that are 2nd,3rd and even 4th generation. THAT is what is mean by Old Bayville. Obviously the younger generation of old Bayville has money, who else can afford to live here any more? BUT WE are NOT snobs. We fully know and expect our children will receive a top quality education; we don't have to be concerned about it. Why, because we have lived it and therefore, are educated professionals. Contrary to the tone of your response to Bayville Engineer we are not a bunch of ignorant slobs with unkempt houses. Are's are probably better kept, we have been doing it a lot longer. We are reasonable intelligent people who don't have a lynch mob mentality about our government, we understand how it works. One person does NOT make the decisions in this town. There is a small handful of pople who use her as a scapegoat to hang their agenda on and are deliberately causing controvery and ill will, which the new are blindly buying into, because they don't take the time to research the history and reasons behind the way things are done. Case in point; you told that woman to make a list for you. Can't you take the time to find out anything about where you live by yourself or are you just "too busy daaahling".
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Jane D wrote:
“Who has pushed anyone's hand down, either literally or figuratively, while they were trying to ask a question?”
It was literally. The names of the two people involved is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.
In the spirit of discussion Id like to reply to your post (No Name calling or bashing intended)
Jane D wrote:
“We understand the divide between old and new bayville. new bayville is educated, affluented, has a lot of money invested in their homes.”
After reading your post I fear I did not get the message Across I ment to. Bayville as a group is very diverse. We have Plumbers, Chefs, Doctors, Lawyers, clammers and my favorite topic Engineers. Do you know who is known for inventing a steam shovel Mr. Godfrey! Do you know the story of a man whose Patten of a fuel efficient carburetor was bought to keep it quiet? Well He lived across from the Catholic Church. Sorry to go off on the engineering thing. My point is educated or not I refer to Old Bayville as A mind set. A mind set of people that for the most part get along and respect each others place in life. The Rich the Poor the Young and the old the educated and the laborers. It hasn’t always Been A picture perfect town but the culture worked for the people who live here.
Jane D wrote:
“It is unrealistic to expect that 5,000-7,000 people in a town will always have the same opinion and blind trust in ONE person running the gov't.”
Unrealistic maybe But one Must ask this why is it a common thing for no one to run against Mrs. Siegel.
Jane D wrote:
“It's fairly normal human nature for the old timers to have an uneasy time with the new comers.”
Again I think you missed the point. When I said Old Bayville I wasn’t referring to the age of a group of people. I was referring to a mind set of a group of people both young and old.
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Joan Imhoff, Edie Minicozzi,Maria Karatun, Ed esposito, Rena Bolgna
all ran against Vicki at one point or another.
Also, Bayville use to have three different political parties, Home Rule, Tip and I beiloieve the citizens party. At one point all three were represented in the board.
If I forgot anyone please forgive.
Vicki has ran unopposed once, again this is from memory, forgive if not completely correct.
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Friday, December 22, 2006 1:11 PM edie wrote:
bayville engineer,
can only speak for myself...I didn't go to the the organic lawn care meeting b/c it would have been a waste of time for me. We already don't use artificial stuff on our lawn.
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Anne:
Reading that excerpt from Edie's post and reading her reply to your first post. I think you are not understanding what she wrote.
It would have been a waste of time becasue she already does not use chemicals on her lawn. Isn't that what the grass roots meeting was about Switching over from pesticides to organic lawn care? She was already doing it. Hence the waste of time.
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Anne,
Thanks for digging up where I said that the meeting itself would be a waste of time, nowhere did I say I wasn't concerned about lawn chemicals. I mean really, what would you expect someone to do in my case, find and pay a sitter to attend an educational meeting that will tell me how to do things i already am doing?
Did you go to the meeting? Do you use chemicals on your lawn?
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To Bayville Engineer -
"Do you know the story of a man whose Patten of a fuel efficient carburetor was bought to keep it quiet?"
Ooo! Ooo! I do! That was Mr. Cottell who lived in the beautiful waterfront home at the end of Private road. His invention used water instead of oil to run and an oil company (I forget which one) paid him over $1M back in the 70's at a time when $1M was a LOT of money, to buy out his patent and keep it off the market.
To All -
Back on topic -
I was disturbed to learn that the Bayville PTA at an "emergency" meeting, when given the opportunity to either: 1. support their Village government's yet to be made decision (or) 2. Oppose the microwave antenna.......voted overwhelmingly for #2.This sad display of lack of faith in our elected officials to do the right thing, leaves me shaking my head.
Additionally, we should all be very concerned with Tom Suozzi's proposal to impose Eminent Domain on behalf of Nassau County on Incorporated Village's land (not just Bayville but all Villages which have shown opposition to the project) upon which the water towers stand. Suozzi's position amounts to "bigger" government overriding the voice of local populaces to give the police what they want. If the County is allowed to get away with this, who knows what the next piece of our little Village the County may grab claiming it is in the interest of "the greater good".
One additional note. I have learned that despite the rather dismal presentation by the police which did not offer any alternatives to the water tower site, there is a very important upside to the project. That upside involves the improved radio communication WITHIN buildings. If you recall, it was the failure of radio equipment for first responders INSIDE the twin towers that may have resulted in even more loss of life on 9/11. In the event of a disaster in Bayville, be it terrorism or natural, what buildings are we talking about? Specifically, it would be the SAME buildings which are used as shelters and which house our youngest residents during the day - the schools. Just something to think about.
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Lisa,
Very good point about Eminent Domain and Suozzi. I wonder if the landmark case last year in CT could be brought into play in this case.
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I wasn't going to comment on the Bayville "culture class" but being rather fond of literacy and proper writing, I just can't stop giggling about the following quote:
Jane D wrote:
"We understand the divide between old and new bayville. new bayville is educated, affluented, has a lot of money invested in their homes..."
Assuming Jane D. is representing his/herself as one of the PBF (which frankly reminds me of Palm Beach Florida), he/she immediately negates any credibility to being their claim of being "educated" by following it with the non-existent adjective "affluented".
And to be fair, Oldtimers and Newcomers alike in this forum have deplorable spelling and grammatical construction skills.
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Now see, because there is no edit button here, I can't fix my own error in the above post which was a sloppy edit as I was typing:he/she
"immediately negates any credibility to their claim of being "educated", by following it with the non-existent adjective "affluented".
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yes! a person should be aware of his or her spelling, but just because mispellings occur, doesn't mean the person is uneducated. (p.s.-- there is a spell check at the bottom of the leave a comment section!) listen, bayville is a diverse place-- i know people who are not formally educated that are smarter than those who are HIGHLY educated. why must we fight about this divide? affluent doesn't always = book smart nor correct grammar! i honestly believe that the people who are fighting this battle to squash the microwave towers are a mix of pld and new bayville-- does it really matter? they all have a COMMON denominator-- protect our children.
furthermore-- i don't care who anyone supported during the last election! it's over! why would PBF waste time and energy when they are busy people? just to spite the current administration!! this is what i (newcomer) dislike about this town....it's frustrating. (and if you hate my dashes-- that's how i "do" blog. if i write something "formal"-- rest assured, i will bust out my chicago manual of style.)
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To Jen -
You said:
"they all have a COMMON denominator-- protect our children."
Let's talk about protecting children, yours, mine, anyone's. Someone brought to my attention a poor air quality report linked on the LVCSD website. The link in teenie weenie little letters says: "Information on indoor quality".
http://www.lvcsd.k12.ny.us/schools/bayelementary.html
If you attempt to pull it up, you will get "This page cannot be displayed". I e-mailed our wonderful (I say that without sarcasm, I do believe she is one of the finest employees in the district) technology director yesterday to let her know, and she said she will fix it. I have full confidence that she will. It is a long weekend, and she's entitled to a few days off, but it makes you wonder. Why of all the links within the site is that the only one written in such teenie weenie font and unavailable?
What I have "heard" is that the report cited overly high levels of carbon dioxide within the building. I do not know the cause. But it also led me to wonder, do we have carbon monoxide detectors in every classroom? In ANY location in our school buildings? I don't know. Maybe we do. Maybe parents of elementary age children would be able to check that out.
If a dangerous situation arose and first responders needed to evacuate the children from the building, wouldn't you want their radio equipment to work? From what I understand, there would be a 95% improvement in radio reception INSIDE the buildings with the successful installation of the microwave antenna.
When we sit down and weigh the various dangers our children face on a daily basis, it is important to factor the worst case scenarios and those most likely to occur. From what I have read, there is no definitive danger from the RF's that will be emitted. Yet we know for a fact that lives were lost on 9/11 due to faulty equipment. While my original position was tell the police no, find an alternative site (and I am still not opposed to that option, I find it rather arrogant of the police to insist on one location and one location only), I also feel that it would be better for our Village to come to an agreement to allow the antenna, rather than have Suozzi force it down our throats and claim Village land for the County.
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LISA,
NOT A 95% INCREASE.
A 95% COVERAGE WITHIN BUILDINGS. UP FROM 85%.
A 10% INCREASE IF IT ALL WORKS.
BJ
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BJ,
You are correct. I remember the NCPD also giving the % of coverage of the Village now, if we do not participate and if we do.
DO you remember the actual % numbers? I remember that visually when they showed the %coverage in a color map, there was litle to no difference if we were in the project or not.
SO, if we do not participate we still get almost the same coverage as if we do participate.
Also, Has Souzzi come public and stated the eminent domain route? I saw J.Jacobs is on a committee to work out the problem with the 16 sites that have not responded or said no.
Souzzi would be biting off a big chunk of political nightmare. Declaring eminent domain over 16 sites county wide? Wow, that would be political suicide.
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I stand corrected. The radios would operate at 95% efficiency INSIDE the buildings and the overall EXTERNAL coverage would only increase by approximately 10%.
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In the spit of discussion I have a question.
After doing my research on the antennas / school For Me The Issue dropped to the bottom ends of my worry list.
I started to assume it was just politics. So not knowing anything about our local politics I started researching that.
A big Eye Opener for me was the comment.
Jane D wrote:
“It is unrealistic to expect that 5,000-7,000 people in a town will always have the same opinion and blind trust in ONE person running the gov't.”
So I decided to research that
About 1/3 of our residents don’t like the current Mayor (Math look familiar)
What I found surprising is The People who don’t like her say she is corrupt. When I push for an example It typically leads to a problem an individual had with the town and didn’t get there way. Although some of the one sided stories I heard Made me question the judgment call. I have never been told any thing that would qualify as corrupt.
Every one not liking the same person is realistic to me.
Here Is my Question. Why do the “not linkers” Keep saying she’s corrupt?
What Am I missing.
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To Bayville Engineer -
Name calling and lobbing false allegations are the tools of those who have no credible evidence to back up their opinions. There's an old saying, "Repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it". Thank goodness 2/3 of Bayville were able to discern the truth.
The link to the Indoor Air Quality (renamed) report is now working. Kudos to our technology director for taking the time to fix it over a holiday weekend. As an engineer, and seeing that the school district has chosen to use H2M, (the same engineering firm the Village uses), I would be interested in your opinion of this existing situation in the Bayville Primary school, and the apparent lack of interest or concern by the same parents who are complaining about the microwave antenna.
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Lisa,
you wrote--"the apparent lack of interest or concern by the same parents who are complaining about the microwave antenna"
ARE U KIDDING ME? just because parents are not freaking out about the indoor air quality on this blog, does NOT mean there is a lack of concern nor interest. I beg to differ about parents "complaining". After reading all your posts on local blogs, I could accuse you of being a BIG complainer. Albeit, an articulate, well-informed one. I would not label the "parents who are complaining about the microwave antenna" as not caring about the current air situation at Bayville Primary. What I find peculiar is that you seem to "pounce", at any chance you get, on anyone you can in the district, to discredit them. It's very enjoyable entertainment.
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To Jen -
Glad you are entertained. Seems to me I credited the technology director with swiftly repairing the broken link. The previous "no comments" in reaction to my posting said link led me to asuume there is either a lack of interest or concern on the part of the same parents who cry so vehemently about their children's health when it comes to a matter involving the Village, but remain silent and apathetic when it falls under school district jurisdiction. So....does it concern you? Do you know if there are carbon monoxide detectors in the schools? We are talking about the exact same building, so I feel it is entirely relevant to the topic.
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Lisa McLoughlin asked
“As an engineer, and seeing that the school district has chosen to use H2M, (the same engineering firm the Village uses), I would be interested in your opinion of this existing situation in the Bayville Primary school”
As An engineer I have used The H2M group from time to time. I guess you could say I was comforted in both cases that they were used as a consulting Firm. I can translate the 2-page memo sent home for you. A few classrooms were getting stuffy so the decided to open a window. Is it on my worry list as a heath hazard? No. Should the school be looking into it (Obviously they Are)? Sure. It’s a comfort thing. What parent wants there kid to spend there day in a stuffy petree dish.
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To Bayville Engineer -
Thank you for your response. Opening a window seems a very simple solution to the problem.
Do you know if schools are required to have carbon monoxide detectors?
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Did any one see the article on the back part page of news day’s part 2. “Working Toward a Healthy L.I.” Notice How Rf is not on their worry list?
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Can't help but add to what Bayville Engineer said about this whole thing being political - Heard a rumor that the leader of this new PBF is the former mayoral candidate's sister. I'm sure there's nothing political about it. It's all about the children.
Also, I would like to add that I read the article in the LV Leader last week. Harrison Woods was deeded to the Village with a stipulation in the deed that it never be developed. I hope now the the BPF won't worry about it.
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Bayville26,
Wow, you should get a job at the FBI! Way to to smoking out the top secret information that the 'former mayoral candidate' and I are sisters. We'd been trying to keep it hidden info, you know, not hanging out together or looking alike and not letting our kids call each other 'Aunt'.
~sarcasm over~
Really, honestly, this is not a political issue. I am first and foremost a Mother and am doing everything with the most clean intentions to make the school my two kids will be going to as safe as possible. Believe what you would like to about me and my character, I know my reasons and so do the people I care about.
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Wow this has reached state level
See what the county has to say about all of this
http://www.nassaucountyny.gov/agencies/CountyExecutive/NewsRelease/2007/01-04-07.html
After Listening to the Above I thought.
Kind of funny Hu! Aren’t they the ones who refuse to research any other possible options?
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To Edie,
I don't know you personally, I don't even know what you look like or if you look like your sister. You probably know what I look like, as my picture is posted under the staff section of The Leader online. I'm not about to question your "clean intentions", but since you claim your desire is to make the schools as safe as possible, perhaps you can answer my still unanswered question: Are there carbon monoxide detectors in the schools? Carbon monoxide is a known odorless, colorless, killer. Are the children protected against this while in school? Since certain classrooms are already "stuffy" indicating that the ventilation system may not be top notch or in need of cleaning, would you be kind enough to check this out?
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Lisa,
I do not currently have children in the schools, (have a four year old that is scheduled to start in sept.) therefore I did not get the letter about the air quality.
I can tell you that if my child were at that school right now, my short term solution would be to go to school myself on Tuesday morning with a plug in Carbon Monoxide detector. beyond that, i'd be taking it to the usual channels for assistance within the school for more in depth, long term resolution.
I am only one person, and I am operating my fullest capacity right now, so honestly I do not have the time to take on the issue of the air quality. I am certain, however, that there are many concerned parents at the school who are taking the appropriate steps to make sure the air quality is fine.
By the way, my answer above was directed to Bayville 26, not to you.
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To Bayville Engineer,
I found it very interesting that the article itself made no reference to Suozzi's comments in the video clip calling on the State to initiate legislation to "mandate" those opposed to the installations to conform. Suozzi's insulting usage of the term "stymied" in reference to Village and public objections and "putting parochial interests above public safety" are a slap in the face to our Village in particular where due dilligence to conduct public hearings on the matter has been performed.
Whether our Village decides to support or oppose the installation, it should be because our officials have weighed the evidence and arrived at an independent decision, not because they are bullied into acceptance by a County Executive who is already despised by the NCPD and trying to win back their favor. We should always be wary of those who cite the "greater public good" as Commissioner of Police James Lawrence did, as justification for a cause. It's very easy to say we should put aside "political bickering", yet as we have seen, political bickering is a major component of the issue.
(What was with the firetruck and police siren "fanfare" in the background? Was that REALLY necessary?
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The article above states
“To date, the county has secured agreements for installation of the equipment at 8 sites. Sixteen other entities have so far refused or not responded to the county's request to install the equipment. A total of 24 sites throughout the county are needed for the new system.”
Please correct my memory. Didn’t they tell us that we were the only ones holding up the project?
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I'm sorry Edie. I did not know the info. about your family history. As I said, it was news to me.
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To Edie,
I'm aware your response was to Bayville26, however you put your comment on this blog for all to read as a statement of your convictions. Nothing wrong with that. I assumed you had children in the Bayville Primary school based on the way your statement was worded, my mistake. I remember how busy I was when my children were little, therefore I apologize for asking for your help in trying to discover the answer to my question. I will pursue the answer on my own, even though my children are long gone from the Bayville Primary school. Thanks anyway, though.
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8 sites secured are as follows:
1. police headquaters in Mineola
2. NUMC
3. Re-Fuel (off the meadowbrook)
4. Port Washington manorville section in the midst of low-income housing******this site as exists now is in Sands POint. Sands point who has existing police equipment will no longer be in the police project once thisproposal is put through
5. East Hills: former site of the air national guard
6. 3rd Precent
7. Mount Misery, in West Hills park Suffolk
8. Westbury, propsect Ave. industrial area surrounded by designated state brown fields
See the pattern here? We are not the only one holding out as a Village.
The other 16 sites are interesting as well.
two are LIPA sites
two are Jericho who flat out said no.
Syosset owned by the arch diocese, in a not heavily populated area adhacent to the golf course and acres of land buffer between antenna and school.
Manhasset, could not locate exact site
Locust Valley/MAtinicock is saying yes
the others I have not found much info on.
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Great research, kerri! Seriously. Very very interesting, as I said previously, it all is very political. Can you please cite your source? Because DROPPING an existing site in a wealthy neighborhood to shove it into a low-income neighborhood......I don't care if you are Liberal, Middle-of-the-road or ultra-Conservative, that's just plain WRONG!! I wonder why LIPA is saying no? Curious indeed.
"Locust Valley/MAtinicock is saying yes"
Really? Isn't the Matinecock Water Tower almost directly opposite the Portledge School? (sorry, couldn't contain myself)
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Lisa:
The Sands POInt info, about the site being dropped and placed in PW was given to me by the NCPD head guy on 12/18. I drove there to see the site and made the deduction myself.
The Northender.com and Newday.com listed all 24 sites and the status of whether they said yes or not.
I then map quested and drove to locations I could find. As I stated some I could not find.
Prtledge parents fought the antennas that are up there now years ago and lost. I guess they are not up for the fight again. Also, noone has gone to the WD public hearings for LV and offered any objections. The LV water tower in MAtiniecock does not currently have 52 antennas on there either, big difference. COuldn't contain myself either!
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Hey everyone just some info I herd about LV there tower has 49 antennas on it and it also has the old NCPD system on it .
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To kerri,
"The Sands POInt info, about the site being dropped and placed in PW was given to me by the NCPD head guy on 12/18. I drove there to see the site and made the deduction myself."
You are to be commended for your diligence in taking the time to drive to the site and make some very astute and cogent observations. I appreciate your naming a very credible direct source. Your observations show the entire project in a much broader political spectrum than just our little Village.
I have a question, you said:
"Also, noone has gone to the WD public hearings for LV and offered any objections"
Were the hearings held by the Incorporated Village of Matinecock for just Matinecock, or by the Town of Oyster Bay for unincorporated Locust Valley?
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I got that info second hand from people inside the lv wd. I do not know much about their operations, but that was what was said to me. I think they have their own superindenten of water, not sure. But did hear the yes, through second hand sources. As of right now, they are listed as "not acquired" on the sites I gave you.
I take the train to the city a few days a week, and have noticed that manyof the water towers along side the tracks in places like hillside nd NHP have limited cell towers on their WT. I counted quickly but about 4-6 respectively.
Just some more info.
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JANUARY 29,2007 @ 7:30
That is the date and time of the next public hearing on this subject. It will be held at the Intermediate School in the Auditorium and last till 9:00.
Please mark your calendars.
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Hi Edie,
Which meeting will be held on the 29th?
Jeff
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Jeff,
The 29th is the continuation of the Public Hearing on the NCPD Proposal. The PD will be there, as will the Village Trustees and Mayor. It will start at 7:30 and go till 9:00.
there is also a Village Monthly Meeting on the 22nd, but the antenna issue is not on the agenda.
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Every one read today’s Newsday 1/17/07
It seams that Suozzi and the Nassau police now are bullying their way threw traffic also.
Apparently they don’t need Emergency lights on to run red lights any more. Any one else see the trend/connection.
Boy I’m sure there a lot of people Who are going to have a field day with this one.
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To Bayville Engineer -
You have to love the quote from the police public information officer where he says "The two detectives assigned to drive Suozzi have the discretion to decide what actions are needed to protect him."
So does that mean, public safety be damned?
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Correction!
I just heard from Mayor Siegel that the public hearing has been switched to February 1, 2007, due to scheduling conflicts with the PD.
thanks!
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One of the things one has to be careful with when researching heath affects of a certain item is. You will always find some one who has died or become ill from it (Usually from extreme usage). The following link will bring you to an article of a woman who died from drinking to much bottled water (Water poisoning)
http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/ten-fired-after-radio-contest-tragedy/20070117182009990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001
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Just reminding anyone who is still checking in here that the Public Hearing on the Antenna Proposal is this week.
Thursday Feb 1, 7:30-9:00 at the Intermediate School Auditorium
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