Roads Revisited
I began writing this in response to Bayvillian’s first comment on “The Roads of Bayville” thread, but we have had a number of posts on this subject since then on two different entry threads and it has grown beyond its originally intended size and scope, so I decided to put it up on the main page. For those of you who have not read the comments I am referring to, they are the posts beginning January 19th on “The Roads of Bayville” and “Bayville Park Busing Resolved?” at these links respectively:
http://bayvilleblog.com/2006/11/12/the-roads-of-bayville.aspx#comment-227813
http://bayvilleblog.com/2006/11/26/bayville-park-busing-resolved.aspx#comment-227869
The reason residents in the Bayville Park Blvd. area had to pay for the improvements to the road is that it had never been built to minimum standards and dedicated to the village as a public road, therefore it is a “privately maintained” road in the public domain (as opposed to “private”- a distinction that seems to have many people stuck). Assuming we are talking about the
Even if none of this were true, the fact is that, unless you have title to the road, it cannot be a truly private road. Note that your own post quotes “Private land may become a public village street by prescription....".
Problems with this issue generally don’t arise until someone decides that they have the right to limit access to the roads. Illegal road closings, denial of access and impeding necessary public works projects are becoming more common and poorly maintained roads are the norm. Here in Bayville, people regularly assert property rights regarding property that they don’t own. An exaggerated sense of entitlement has been allowed to flourish. Again, our unconventional system of roads is nobody’s fault and is merely a product of Bayville’s unique history, but with more and more of these issues arising, it is time for us to inventory the roads and their status and take a stand. And yes, I have absolutely thought about the implications of all of this beyond the
Access is only one facet. All of Bayville’s storm water that is not diverted into drywells runs directly into the Bay or the Long Island Sound. This runoff brings with it huge amounts of pollution including litter, silt, motor oil, antifreeze, pet waste, pesticides, fertilizers and household chemicals. Basically anything that is placed, dumped or leaked onto the ground ends up in the Bay or Sound. The cumulative effects of this are devastating for these bodies of water. The condition of our roads and the overall lack of adequate drainage systems, make Bayville a huge contributor to this problem. Since environmental issues are my overriding concern, this is my motivation for addressing the issue.
To the credit of Mayor Siegal and the Board of Trustees, some major improvements have been made over the last several years, including the drainage and paving work done on Bayville Park Blvd, and they are to be commended, but the task is immense and the vast majority of our roads, including Bayville Ave. still empty directly into our waters without any system in place to reduce the amount of pollutants introduced. This is a major factor (along with the Birches sewage) in the fact that the Mill Neck Creek area has been closed to swimming and shellfishing for years. In my opinion, the “private road” issue and lack of standards for road construction and drainage are major obstacles to progress in this area.
In order to make an improvement to a road that is considered “private”, the Village must jump through hoops to build a consensus of adjoining property owners. If a consensus is not reached, the project is often killed, even though failing to make the improvements has implications for a resource that affects the entire community and beyond – the Bay. Leaving decisions that affect the entire community in the hands of small groups of people is unfair to the rest of the community.
Even if the road in question is deeded to the adjoining property owner, attempting to resurrect some historical property claim that will gain them little or no tangible benefit at the expense of our surrounding waters is a detriment to the community. It also may bring with it a huge liability in the unlikely event that those claims are granted.
The fact is that roads should be in the public domain and be improved to the minimum standards determined by the municipality which they are in. They should then be dedicated and maintained by that municipality in a way that best serves the entire community. The system, or lack thereof, that has been in place since Bayville was incorporated, doesn’t work. The results are everywhere.
The fact is that most associations DO own the land roads within the association are on, and hence so each property owner owns a piece of each road. In Bayville, this is true for the association I live in, Pine Island Park. If we let the government 'improve' OUR roads we will lose the right to keep them private. If you don't believe this, then take a look at what happened on the New Jersey and Carolina coasts - anyone and everyone can park on streets within associations that were ‘improved’ by the government, and the residents have lost all privacy rights. One of the great things about Bayville is that is NOT a busy, overcrowded, littered and dangerous place - and we must keep it that way. I and ALL of my neighbors strongly disapprove of any INTERFERENCE by the government on land that we own. Everyone on private streets should be very concerned about this, there is a Trojan Horse beating at our door, and we must NOT let it in!!! Give the village, or the town, or the state, or the feds an inch of our land, and they will take everything we’ve got.
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John,
The point is that, closing roads, denying access and initiating court proceedings are what brings this topic into the public eye. If these things did not happen, then nobody would be having this discussion and things would remain the same as they always were. It is the very assertion of these rights that threatens them.
Barry
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If your goal is to help the environment. Don’t give your roads away!
The higher the level of government the harder it is to get what you want done. Bayville Park Boulevard is a perfect example. A road that was abandoned land (in the 50’s) is now a well drained neighbor hood. It still has one major environmental problem. The drains end on Nassau county property. The county wont do there part in keeping the exits clean. They have come back with all kinds of excuses (My favorite was they cant find them).
“the vast majority of our roads, including Bayville Ave. still empty directly into our waters”
Bayville Avenue is a county road.
Two questions
What did they do on Bayville avenue to stop the flooding at Jefferson?
Did I miss your point?
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Bayville Engineer,
I agree with your example of Bayville Park Blvd. Residents and Village Government worked together to improve the paving and drainage (using some public funds) in a way that benefitted both the residents and helped to reduce the polluted runoff entering the Bay. Nobody cared about classification of the road. In fact, the only time that that became an issue was when access was denied to the school buses.
My only point in mentioning Bayville Ave. is to make everyone aware that water flowing from side streets onto it also flows directly into the Bay, taking with it all the oil from leaky engines, silt, litter and other pollutants.
Barry
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Tonight there was another accident on Bayville Avenue.
Many people drive at excessive speeds down this residential road.
How many accidents do we need to have to slow down traffic?
Will it take another death?
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Speeding is a problem all over the village. I have mentioned to the mayor that cars travel on Mountain Avenue and do not slow down to 15 mph for the school while school is in session. The tiny little signs are hard to see and I think the pavement should be marked. The mayor's response was that, after checking, the village had done all that was required.
The mayor and trustees were very happy at that the last Village meeting that the "traffic calming" on West Harbor Drive was working. I would think that traffic on West Harbor is hardly what it is on Bayville Avenue.
Speeding will remain a problem until enough people speak up or a really bad accident occurs.
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Time to revive a story I wrote in 2006?
http://www.theleaderonline.com/011106/accidentave.htm
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Today I was almost broadsided by a person barreling out of a driveway on Perry Avenue. The driver had a cell phone to his ear and was looking right while turning left.
Road markings are mostly non existent and the Avenue is in dire need of repaving. If that isn't bad enough on Bayville Avenue by the Post Office, the village has allowed parking across the street from the chinese restaurant/gym allowing the road to be even narrower.
Walking along Bayville Avenue in the morning can be very scary. With the unshoveled sidewalks a pedestrian is forced to walk in the street - a very dangerous proposition.
Pedestrians are also at risk if they want to walk along Shore Road near the boat slips. There are no sidewalks on either side of the road and the creek side contains some very rough terrain. In the summer the traffic can be awful. Thankfully, most of the drivers have the good sense too look for pedestrians.
Some law enforcement would be a good place to start.
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WOODY,
I am 100% behind you.
The sidewalks are hazardous. As a Bayville Ave resident my husband, myself and son are out their shoveling non stop.
It is very aggrevating after the 110th time we clean the sidewalk the plow comes by and covers it up again.
After that I give up and the next day there is a summons on my door!!!
BUT in front of the Bayville community center the sidewalks remain full of
snow.
I guess the same rules don't apply.
RE Traffic:
The traffic on Bayville Avenue needs to be addressed.
I guess it will take the death of a loved one to do something about it.
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At the last village meeting a resident who said he was a walker complained about unshovelled sidewalks. The mayor said that the compliance officer issues summonses to people who don't clean sidewalks. She said that there are homes owned by senior citizens who can't shovel as well as unoccupied properties. I didn't know that the community center went unshovelled. I would be "shocked" to hear that.
I think that people are very complacent. I have started to attend village meetings and often there are two people in attendance. I am sure that there will be a big turnout at the next meeting when boaters who use electricity at the slips find out that they will pay a lot more. People seem to attend meetings only when there is something that directly affects them.
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There are many side walks all over this community that are never cleared and those homeowners never get a letter warning them that they will be fined.
Bayville Avenue homeowners have to deal with the plows that cover the sidewalks after they just finish clearing them...and for those that are cleared it is obvious that they were cleared previously. The person that sends those letters out should use better judgment when sending them. Rather than acting on the complaint get out there and inspect the sidewalk before accusing the homeowner of not clearing the sidewalks.
To the shameless man that complained about the sidewalks and did not have any compassion or understanding for the elderly that can not get out there...SHAME ON YOU
How about getting a shovel and help your neighbor!
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The person who sends out the notices is the Compliance Officer. The mayor gives him much praise but he leaves much to be desired.
Everyone on our unpaved street received a warning from this guy. He cited a section of the Village ordinances that deal with paved roads and sidewalks and which was not applicable to our road. The notices were hand written, partially illegible and containing misspellings. They were an embarrassment for the village and a waste of time and postage.
The person who complained about the sidewalks being unshovelled was asking a general question and wasn't alluding to any one residence. I am sure that there are residents along Bayville Avenue who clean walks for their neighbors.
There is a general feeling that the compliance enforcement is haphazard at best. If all the violations of non compliance to the village code were to receive a summons, the magistrate would not have the time to deal with all the cases.
I think that many people are happy with the status quo until something happens that affects them personally; then they manage to get themselves to a Village board meeting.
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If the Village is so concerned about unshoveled sidewalks, why not look into the haphazard plowing jobs that are performed on the side streets, leaving them looking like ice rinks. The condition of my block over the last two months is downright dangerous. Maybe the village should invest in some more appropriate plowing equipment, as while the Pickups they are currently using might be fine for parking lots, they don't cut it on the streets.
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BAYVILLE AVENUE - THE WORST MAIN ROAD OF ANY TOWN IN LONG ISLAND!!
Why is it that in our village of means, where there is only ONE main road, ONLY ONE, that it is the worst one in the county?!
It is filled with divots, pits, bumps that resemble small speed bumps, loose paving and ruts from the supermarket stores all the way to the center of town!
WHERE DOES ALL OUR TAX MONEY GO!?
They fixed west shore rd which is only used by a few people but have never done Bayville Avenue where 99% of the residents drive everyday!
WHY?
My car shakes and bounces and bumps along from Perry Ave all the way through past St Gertrude's!!
It is an embarrasment and an outrage that the village govt has never fixed this! What do they do with ALL the huge $$ we pay in taxes!!??
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Bayville Avenue is a County road.
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Lisa,
It does not matter that it is a County Road.
West Shore Rd. is a Town Road and the Mayor had an intregal part in getting the job done over there.
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Whatever you say, roadie. She's a lame duck Mayor now, you all hate her, why should she go out of her way for you?
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Talking of roads... as anyone in the eastern reaches of Bayville will know, a rather large power pole fell over today in front of the Poseidon pile and, of course, brought down most of the wires and cables with it, cutting power to all businesses in the Stands and most residences in the Bayville Park Boulevard area for some eight or nine hours today. To enlighten my kids as to the reason for havin to do homework by candlelight and not being able to get the TV or computers to work, I walked them down to the playground tonight.
"Is that the pole that fell down?" exclaims my four-year old, staring at the still angled culprit. I felt no need to confirm the obvious. He went on:
"Glue. They need glue. Glue fixes everything."
I had only just stopped laughing from this one when he looked at me very seriously and said:
"So is the sea closed, too?"
Mark
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For 30 years she was not a lame duck and she was our representative whom I did vote for.
In the past 15 years where Bayville Ave has gotten more and more use I cannot beleive she could not find the time to work with our County Representatives and try and get our only main road repaired correctly. She knew how to work with our County Supervisor to get the cell towers up there!
Just the facts!
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A segment of Bayville Avenue is due to get reconstructed in the President's Street area to abate flooding. It will be a county project.
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I hope they fix all the gas leaks before they repave the road . Am I the only one that smells them??
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The Mayor is a Lame duck now and she has been a lame duck Mayor since the last election. The road to her palace is nicely paved. The reason for the paving and re-disgn was to slow drivers down, what a great concept. Just more BS that she is shoveling out. Remember when June comes, please do not vote for members in her party, they all are lame ducks, even Doug. What has Pete or Kathy the two new trustees done other then agree with our lame duck mayor, yes Mayor I do not want this job no more Siegel. It should be a rule once a mayor has decided not to run anymore, they should an special election, this would prevent the mayor from just sitting back and waiting for her LOSAP Awards retirement system on kick in. BTW she is the only mayor in the entire region who will collect a retirement oncew she leaves office. Thats your tax dollars spent wisely. Get rid of the so TAX PAYERS PARTY in 2010.
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>>>>>>>>>BTW she is the only mayor in the entire region who will collect a retirement oncew she leaves office.>>>>>>>>>>>
LOLOLOLOL! Oh yeah, that's what Vicki's been banking on retiring on all these years, $28 a month!
Good grief, can you Vicki haters get any more pathetic?
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I mistakenly thought being a member of the school board was the most under appreciated job in public service. Actually, it is a dream job compared with being a trustee for the village. The School Board members receive no compensation and get nothing back but grief. Village officials receive token compensation and get back grief squared, mainly from do nothing citizens who never raise a hand to help anyone except themselves. "Those who can do, those who can't complain"
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Laying out grounds reproduce may be considered a liberal art, in some sort like poetry and painting.
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Unbelievable! beautiful article very informative
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