Let the Children Play!
The Poczatek's attorney asked for a motion to dismiss the charges against the Poczatek’s due to the fact that it violates their 14th Amendment rights.
The 14th Amendment reads-
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
The Poczatek’s were charged with violating the following Village Code-
42-3. Enumeration of prohibited noises.
J. The shouting and crying of peddlers, hawkers and vendors which disturbs the peace and quiet of the neighborhood.
The Poczatek’s attorney expressed concern that the neighbor has video tape of their 5 and 11 year old children (and possibly others) playing in the pool in their bikinis. They family wants the tape turned in and destroyed.
After the motion to dismiss, the Village Counsel stated that the people rest and that all charges against the Poczatek’s be dropped.
Jeff S
I don't like the automatic assumption/condemnation that he could be a pervert. But is it even legal to take video of people in the backyard of there private residence unbeknownest to them? Certainly that falls under some sort of peeping tom law...
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The video of the Poczatec girls are compliments of "Mommy Dearest". The Kostakis taping is ONLY AUDIO!!!! Strike up another for "PARENT OF THE YEAR" . EXPLOITING HER CHILDREN for her five minutes of fame!!!!!!!!! They should throw HER IN JAIL and throw away the KEY!!!!!!
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I am so glad that the court threw out the case of children being kids. After hearing about this I would never visit or buy in your village. What do you want to take the freedom of children away too? I hope the people who sued can see how stupid they real are. And that gives bad messages to all people on Long Island. It is sad sad sad. So how do you feel about your town now being the mayor. If I was mayor I would be so modified. Think about it.
Thanks for letting sound off.
themomma
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The only bad message being sent here is that parents don't need to teach their children respect. You can go to a recreation center or park and hear children enjoying themselves with normal noise and the occasional outburst of higher volume, which is what I would expect. Listening to that screeching I have to wonder if the child has issues with hearing or if we just have a parental lack of caring. You can bet she doesn't do that in the house.
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The only bad message being sent here is that parents don't need to teach their children respect. You can go to a recreation center or park and hear children enjoying themselves with normal noise and the occasional outburst of higher volume, which is what I would expect. Listening to that screeching I have to wonder if the child has issues with hearing or if we just have a parental lack of caring. You can bet she doesn't do that in the house.
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Polluted on the Beach
It's summer time and the parties have started. Last night there were over 50 teenagers (LV freshman to seniors) drinking on the beach at Oak Point. Yes it's been going on for years, but it doesn't make it right. Does anyone know how we can get the police to patrol the beaches - continually - weekdays and weekends so we can prevent something horrible from happening?
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calm down you were a kid once 2 they are not hurting anyone
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There have been parties (both legal and illegal) on the Bayville beaches since the 1960s. Its something kids do and will continue to do with or without police patrols. I think the only problem is if the kids are chucking their garbage on the sand and in the water. Otherwise, its summer in a seaside town, do you expect it to be quiet?
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And now the issue has reached the "Featured Story" status on Yahoo.com
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=49750&cl=3116397&ch=61492&src=news
Can anyone else feel the property values falling?
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When you buy your property or rent there is a clause that talks about "quiet enjoyment" you have a right to enjoy your home. Why should your liberty to use quiet enjoyment be taken from you, life to enjoy without hearing someone else problems or noise, and I would pursue this matter in court. I have a similar problem in Baltimore, MD. Children running up and down the street making all types of noise. Why do I have to hear the children that lives across the alley, 3 doors down from me, but my neighbor that lives next door to me has 4 kids and I can't hear them at all. People need to be responsible for their children.
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Therese:
You can use the same logic against your argument. Why should the children's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness be hampered by your intolerance for noise? I can almost understand the neighbors pool complaint because the yards are right on top of each other, but in your case I am less sympathetic. Do you own the streets near your home to regulate as you see fit?
You ask "Why do you have to hear the kids down the street", well its because you live in a neighborhood with children. Children should be outside getting exercize and enjoying their early carefree years. If it bothers you so much move to an adults-only community.
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Your logic is twisted. It is common sense, but maybe not in your case, if I can hear you a block away, then you are too loud. My neighbor asked if I could hear their kids. The answer: no. Why should I hear kids screaming, yelling, a block away, why should I have to remind kids that I own the grass they are standing and playing on, dog is laying on....go home and play, destroy where you live...oh,..yeah, you don't have grass... go in the house and make that noise in front of your parental unit. Children should be seen and not heard. LOL...Go in the house with that noise.
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If you had listened to the audio recording of these kids,and imagined that going on for hours and over the years........you would see that it is not just the sound of gleeful children screaming...it is abusively loud and uncalled for. So the hell with everyone else? and their rights in their homes? None of you have ever had an issue with your neighbors that you couldn't talk to them about?Parking?overhanging trees?loud music? Lets see what you do when you're neighbors ignore and disregard your family and your home. I hope you will all gain some insight and consideration and responsibility here.
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You are right. My neighbor best respond to my complaint, I know how to write court complaints, I do it for a living. I would sue.
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I can understand both sides of this debate, and while annoyance may be natural and justified, legal action really isn't.
I suppose you have a right to sue whoever you want for just about anything, but the truth of the matter is that if you raised this complaint in your neighborhood it would be thrown out just as fast with just as much ridicule.
If you are a professional complainer, then you realize that the legal system is an entirely different beast from interpersonal communication, and the legal results are always less satisfying. Even though this happened very close to my home and I'm disappointed at the negative press, I don't presume to know the circumstances of the case or exactly how hard Mr. Kostakis and his neighbors tried to communicate. I do not by any means identify with Mr. Kostakis, but perhaps he felt that they had to be more extreme to send a message that they were looking for a little more courtesy.
I do know that the legal precedent has been set for this issue, and it is that children are allowed to play – which means you may be out of luck with your pending complaint. I hear there was cheering in the courtroom when the case was thrown out.
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Therese:
I would try to answer your post more accurately but I really don't know what you are trying to say. Hearing kids from a block away is normal part of any suburban neighborhood. Your opinion is based on a "me first, me only" attitude which is clearly expressed by your immediate desire to sue anyone that offends you. If you lived a block from the tracks would you call the court each time a train passed? This type of unmitigated litigation will be the downfall of all American freedoms.
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You also do realize that there is nothing in the village code about verbal noise levels during the day?(Aside from aforementioned law about vendors, hawkers, and peddlers which obviously would not apply in any of the situations you mentioned) In fact, there are no laws or codes that I can see that apply to verbal noise during _any_ time of day. If there are, please direct me to them.
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Parents should teach their kids to respect the rights of others. Play and have fun, make some noise but don't scream at the top of your lungs for hours on end. If those were my kids I would be alarmed that someone was getting hurt or in trouble. I would tell them to tone it down.
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First of all, let's not blame the kids, put the blame where it belongs...on the parents. And it seems to me that it all depends on the duration and the type of noise kids make. In my neighborhood, the kids across the street jump on their trampoline. Do they make noise, yes, of course. But it blends into the background. I find myself smiling. The same goes for the kids on the hill when they are in the pool with their friends. However, if I had to listen to the incessant screeching of those kids in Bayville, my nerves would be on edge very quickly. It reminds me very much of the mother with five kids under 6 at Marshall's yesterday, who saw nothing wrong with letting her kids run wild and use pots as drums while she talked on her cell phone. I think the neighborhood deserves a break.
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this is not about the kids, obviously it is about the parent's lack of respect for the community in which they live. this family thinks money is power, and they don't think they have to answer to anybody. WAKE UP your bratty kids have to learn to be respectiful too.
Those neighbors deserve to relax in their own backyards, period. If you heard the video recording on good morning america i feel it is impossible not to empathize with these people. It is EVERYone's summer vacation, not just kids in school. All of the neighbors deserve to enjoy the homes, which they pay a lot of money to live in, without being stopped in their tracks by piercing sreams and yelps.
Since when is it ok to scream at the top of your lungs for no reason? I cna understand doing it when in pain or in a situation in which you must get someone else's attention, but when jumping in a pool or trampoline?
My parents would not have stood for that, and the girls' parents should not either. Teach your kids right, please, for the sake of our country.
thank you.
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I agree. Let them go and scream at the top of their lungs next to their parents!!!!! Go ahead....see what happens...couldn't be kids because I would light them up. Kids are amirror image of their parents. Disrespectfull.
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This is nothing but stupid neighbor vs neighbor.My big problem is with this "code enforcement Officer" he`s got to go!!! no more made up Jobs for friends!!!!!!! As far as the kids,these people ,the ones complaining probably don`t like guys cleaning their boats off in the driveway or winterizing your outboard at home.That type,not the bayville type at all
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Hey One more thing .How many of you outstanding parents have kids running around in the middle of town at 11:00pm at night.or cursing like a drunken sailor on leave in front of women and kids younger then them.drive through Bayville at about 10:30 at night and see all the well behaved children "hangin" Don`t get me wrong I did it to but I had enough respect for older people and women to watch my mouth in front of them.If the Cops dare call the Parents they would sue or complain about Police abuse or some BS.These soccer moms and dads are more worried about keeping up with the jones to raise their kids the right way .With respect for God Country and Family
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Ther was no suing involved.!!!....the only legal action taken was a summons,drawn and served by town officials,to require a response from the Poczateks,after phone calls and warnings were of no avail over a period of 3 years!
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Who leaves their children unattended in a swimming pool? I have three children who NEVER are alone outside never mind in our pool. And I respect my neighbors and do not allow my kids to start screaming like ANIMALS. Yes, kids are kids, not animals. Just like your kids are swimming - the Kostakis' would like to enjoy their yard as well, and have a peaceful dinner on their deck after a hard, long work day! Obviously the Kostakis' have a point and are being realistic if other neighbors are complaining as well. And especially if this is going on for years. Give me a BREAK. I wouldn't be too happy if I came home everynight to screaming kids. Would you? Parents who always say "kids are being kids" - are clearly the ones who don't discipline them or have control over their own kids. Just be fair - everyone should enjoy their home. There's always two sides to the story. Its not all about "kids having fun" .... Spare me.
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Not only have the Poczateks made their neighbor's lives hellish for over three years, and made it impossible for anyone but their own kids and their friends to enjoy the summer outdoors, but now they are creating lies and painting their neighbors in an ugly way. If anyone actually saw the videotape, the children are never seen on it! The tape was rolling in the neighbor's yard and they were just trying to tape the audio. And now the Poczateks are trying to paint their neighbors to look like peeping toms, or worse. The only pictures or film of these girls, in their bathing suits, are the ones their parents had the media - whom they called - take. These parents have taken every opportunity to exploit their children in this debate, including dragging a 5yr old into the courthouse and thru the media frenzy that again, they created. It's no wonder these people have no respect for their neighbors. They obviously have no respect for themselves or their children either.
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I don't know who you are Ritsa, but thank you so much for your comment, as this is as close to the truth as possible.
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While the wonderful kids are splashing and screaming - are the parents inside crankin the a/c and wearing earplugs?
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Problem solving could be difficult ... Forget earplugs in your own home! How ridiculous ... How about "duct tape" .. that can come handy in situations like this.... Don't ya think? Kids go have a ball ... don't forget the duct tape.
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Hats off and applause to the mother of the 2 1/2 yr old girl, with another baby on the way (she is one of the Plymouth Road residents). She eloquently described, in the GMA interview, how she is trying to raise, and plans to continue to raise, her children - with discipline and with respect for others. I couldn't help but notice that this mom did not parade her little girl on television or in the courtroom. She obviously has too much concern and respect for her own child, as she should, to use her in that way. Bravo! Let's hope the parents of the other two little girls learn something from you - the world would be a better place - way to go!
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WOW!... I'm glad that someone is paying attention!!!! That was a very conscious decision on the part of that young mom and dad to leave their children out of this. It's a shame when parents have to pimp out their children in an effort to cover their own misgivings. As for the parents of the "media circus" kids, I don't think there is much hope.....Thank you for your observation....P.S.... Do you think there is possibly anyone more despicable on the planet than the Poczatecs attorney who thinks he is so smart and rightous?????
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Has anyone seen the Newsday poll on this issue? The Poczateks contacted Newsday to get their story told, but it backfired. Over 44,000 people voted and 90% voted against the Poczateks and their noisy household! I guess no more how you try to spin it, when you're wrong, you're wrong.
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Amen Ann!....I wonder if they are still cheering at the courthouse!!!!!
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Think we are all missing the big picture here people.
Its very easy to armchair quaterback the raising of someone elses children. How perfect are your children? ALL kids make noise, especially when the are HAPPY CHILDREN. Who the hell wants a Stepford child anyway?
Is it possible that if this were handled by the Village properly this "mystery video" would have never appeared? Was it incompetence on the part of the Village telling the Kostakis' to make the tape in the first place instead of investigating the situation themselves? The Kostakis' should just give it to the Poczatek’s to satisfy their request. If there are no kids on it then all the mystery will be solved, right?
The Poczatek’s did not create this circus; the charges against them and the writing of such a ridiculous summons by the Village did.
Jeff
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With all due respect, Jeff, I believe this was handled in a very thoughtful, fair and clever way by the village. The village DID investigate themselves and substantiated the complaint was a valid one. The fine/ jailtime was just to get the P.'s attention that one of their neighbors had a legitimate complaint that was being ignored. I don't believe the village ever had any intention of prosecuting the P.'s. If the P.'s had just quietly responded to the summons, it would have been dissmissed and perhaps they might have finally told their children to not make EXCESSIVE noise for EXTENDED durations, as this is what the complaint was about. As for the mystery videotape....there is and has not been any mystery. It was viewed in entirety by a female Nassau County Police officer and deemed benign. Mr. K has invited ANYONE who wants to see the tape for themselves to drop by and take a look.
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Jeff,
I agre with your statement.
The Villages, recommendations to the K's and summons to the P's are what got us all here, the center of a national joke!
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Actually, we are now the center of a national debate-which the six complaining families are obviously winning. The jokesters are the parents of the girls and other mothers like yourself that don't understand what "true parenting" really is. Don't be such sore losers - Take a lesson from all of this and teach your children that "not throwing rocks and not cursing" is just not enough!! Those are just the mere "basics" Instilling values that will take them through life in a productive and fulfilling manner requires far more than that!!! Think Mrs. P and you other like-thinking moms are up to it??
Rule 1: Teach them to Respect others.
Rule2: Teach them that the world does not revolve around you and them.
Rule3: Do not use them and splash them all over the media and into the courtroom.
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Thank you Jeff, a voice of reason. Also I've noticed that many to almost all of those that would find the Poczatek fall into two categories. Those that have had personal problems with either noisy neighbors or noisy children, in which case you're judging the situation with premeditated prejudice or you are a bored self-righteous mother/housewife who feels she did/doing a perfect job raising her kid(s) and gets off on watching and criticizing but if thrown in the same situation would probably crash and burn a lot faster than the Poczateks. If you're a parent and you've raised kids in Bayville in the last 30 years they're more likely to be/have been an alcoholic or pothead than not (I was SADD president at LVHS - I did the research). And as Jeff said these kids were reprimanded for having fun, but not just having that for having fun doing something healthy, legal, and not dangerous to others. In conclusion I'm sorry that you have issues with kids or are blindly self-righteous, but Kids = Bayville so learn it or move. Oh and this idea that you and your generation were more respectful when you were young it's an illusion, a fantasy of the old pertaining to the young.
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*Correction:"...that would finf the Poczateks at fault, fall into two..."
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JMack said:
"If you're a parent and you've raised kids in Bayville in the last 30 years they're more likely to be/have been an alcoholic or pothead than not (I was SADD president at LVHS - I did the research)."
And what research was that? The 1998 PRIDE survey? The same one that led our past Superintendent to declare that Locust Valley schools are drug free? What a joke! Why don't you do a search on Facebook.com for some of this year's seniors and note the number of pics of kids drinking. How many of the young Bayville parents today are alcoholics or potheads? Irrelevant. Your statement is ridiculous and has no bearing whatsoever on how children are raised.
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I find it hilarious the amount of hypocritical mud slinging that is occuring. "Bayville resident" and cohorts, you are the worst. You are complaining incessantly about the character assisination of Kostakises yet much of your posts on these two threads are just written jabs at the Poczateks. Everyone is angry and looking for someone to put in their place so they can feel better about themselves. I hope its comfortable up there on your pedestals, doesn't look that way from down here.
And to my dear friend Therese, when you accosted my ability for common sense and logic I was merely using your argument from the other side so think about that for a moment before slinging more insults.
Glass houses...
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Lisa
1998?? No, the 91, 92, 93 independent SADD surveys conducted by the senior SADD leadership. They weren't mandatory like the Pride was, but we used sample z-test statistical analyzation to project the population data. The rest was inference based on past and future LV students.
Lisa this seem to have struck a nerve with you. Why are you defending continuing alcohol and drug abuse while raising children, do you seriously believe that maintaining such habits while raising children has no effect on them?
Look the point I was merely trying to make was that you (meaning overly self-righteous parents) aren't as good, perfect, right, as you imagine. Kind of like a "Ye who is without sin..." speech.
Sincerely,
-JMP
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JMP,
It is hard to tell from a blog without seeing facial expressions whether your comment:
"Why are you defending continuing alcohol and drug abuse while raising children, do you seriously believe that maintaining such habits while raising children has no effect on them?
Look the point I was merely trying to make was that you (meaning overly self-righteous parents) aren't as good, perfect, right, as you imagine."
....was meant as an innocent misunderstanding of my words or deliberately malicious. Nothing in my post should be construed to support parents abusing drugs or alcohol while rearing children. The results of your surveys most likely indicated predictors of whether children of alcoholics and drug users were more likely to abuse substances themselves. I am pretty confident that none of the questions on those surveys dealt with whether substance abusers raise ruder, louder, more obnoxious and annoying children than non-substance abusers. What if only one parent is a substance abuser? Is that family more likely to have polite, well-behaved children than a family with no substance abusers? What about parents who have a gazillion different neurosis but are tea-totallers? Are you going to give me a prediction as to what sort of children they might raise? Just because someone may have a substance abuse problem doesn't mean they don't have manners and respect for others. You seem to be painting a very broad stroke. There are degrees of everything, and relationships and abuses vary greatly depending on the tolerance levels for certain behavior by different members of a family. Take this hyhpothetical situation: If Mommy lets 4 yr. old Johnny kick her in the leg and call her a bi!ch, (and believe me, I've witnessed this several times over the past 30 yrs. in Bayville) I don't care if Mommy is straight, a lush a lesbian or a pothead, she's got a problem brewing! Johnny sure as heck's not going to listen to Moma when she tells him to shut up in the pool! If she even bothers! Poor Mama is already so defeated she just gives up trying. Because, well, Johnny is just being a boy!
And for the record, I certainly never claimed to be the "perfect parent". My own son threw quite a horrific bash with over 100 kids one weekend when we went away and thought we could trust him to have 10 friends over for a bar-b-q. It happened. Once. It didn't happen AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, however! According to the reports, these complaints have been falling on deaf parental ears for three years! I also heard from a reliable source close to the situation the the mother of the little girls instructed them to "scream louder" after one complaint. That's just plain rude, stupid, childish and antagonistic on the mother's part. I sure am glad they're not my neighbors.
I have very nice neighbors. I am lucky. I think we all try to be considerate of each others' properties and understand that life consists of growth, and fun, and family. Such is as it should be
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Screaming kids and poor parenting. An explosive combination!
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Pure and simple- Your backyard may be "private" but the noise emanating from it is NOT.
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Let me start by saying I LOVE kids!!!! I'm around them all the time yet this is so unheard of!!! The second u hear this story u're first reaction is kids are kids...BUT when u really sit and think of it you're right they are kids NOT animals!!! I'm around kids all the time. Kids have fun,laugh, yell and make noise but deep down inside "we" all know that loud kids like the Poczatek kids are EXTREMELY Annoying!!! Those of u who are criticizing the Kostakis' know for a fact that you're WRONG!!!! How many times did u get annoyed at a screaming child?? How many times did u make your children stop while they were yelling? How many times did u yell at your own kids because they were loud?? PLENTY!!!! I'm sure!!!! So how do u expect these people to live next door to that!!??? That's not loud noise...that's everyday hell!! I work all day every day when I come home like many of you all I want to do is relax and enjoy my evening. How can u enjoy your evening or a day off or even lay out in your yard having to hear noise as if someone was strangling the kids next door!!! I would NEVER deal w/ that. It's normal for kids to be loud and from what I've seen the Kostakis' look very normal to me as well. I don't believe if this was normal noise they would've never went to this extreme with all this. Another thing that kinda annoyed me....anyone one of us would've taped the noise for our own purpose. Anyone of us would've walked in that courtroom with proof of any type of noise. Why are some of you accusing the Kostakis's of filming while filming was never done and it was only a "voice" recording that you yourself would've had in your possession if it was you. My sister has a 7yr.old a 5yr. old and twins that are 3yrs. old. NEVER and I mean NEVER did I hear that sort of horror come out of their mouths!! There is discipline and respect in households and obviously there is none in the Poczateks' house. NONE what so ever!!! If her kids made noise like that our neighbors would think they were posse st!!! Unbelievable!!! Having to pay a mortgage and dealing w/ stuff like that. Someone stated earlier that they should live elsewhere...NO!!! They shouldn't the Kostakis' are not a problem here the problem should move elsewhere, where they are able to make animal noises all they want. Or the parents should tame their kids and treat them manners. You are not living in a farm you live around others. Learn how to respect others the way they respect you or move to a farm where your noise wont be pinpointed.Oh yeah one more thing….next time u yell at your kids for making noise or hear a loud annoying kid around u screaming like they’re being strangled, especially when u get back from a hard day at work and all u wanna do is sit and relax…think of the kostakis' and actually realize what they’re going thru… Would u like to be in their shoes??? I sure wouldn't!!! And I'm sure most of u wouldn't either.
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